bad trip 10 ml

Making Sense of Bad Trips Through Storytelling

Drawing on narrative theory, researchers have found storytelling is crucial to how people make sense of bad trips, turning them positive..

Bad trips, otherwise known as challenging or difficult psychedelic experiences, can occur for a variety of reasons. But whether due to aspects of set and setting or dosage, psychedelic users can find them difficult to make sense of and recover from. Indeed, some negative journeys with psychedelics can be marked by high levels of emotional distress, sometimes leading to persisting psychological or existential issues. 

As psychedelics become easier to use through changes to drug policy worldwide, in terms of both recreational and medical uses, it’s important to understand how best to help those who have had distressing psychedelic experiences . While the risk of difficult or even traumatic journeys can be minimized through proper screening, careful preparation, optimization of setting, and adequate support both during the journey and the integration phase, bad trips can still occur. And if this happens, do we know what an effective response might be?

A 2021 study published in the International Journal of Drug Policy has provided some clues. Authors Liridona Gashi, Sveinung Sandberg, and Willy Pedersen found that the stories users of psychedelics tell themselves about their bad trips can help turn these negative experiences into positive ones [1]. Before examining their findings, it will be useful to first describe what we mean by a ‘bad trip’.

What Defines a ‘Bad Trip’?

The authors of the 2021 study note, “There is no clear definition of what constitutes a bad trip.” But they acknowledge that they can include adverse reactions like anxiety, panic, depersonalization, ego dissolution , paranoia, as well as somatic symptoms such as dizziness and heart palpitations. Moreover, Barrett et al. (2016) developed a Challenging Experience Questionnaire based on challenging experiences with psilocybin, identifying seven dimensions of bad trips: fear, grief, death, insanity, isolation, physical distress, and paranoia [2]. 

We can also say that bad trips include affective (e.g. panic, depressed mood), cognitive (e.g. confusion, feelings of losing insanity), and somatic (e.g. nausea, heart palpitation) symptoms. In the 2021 study, the authors state that a key feature of a bad trip is “a feeling of losing oneself or going crazy, or ego dissolution.” It is worth highlighting that other research has found that ego-dissolution effects are correlated with the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics [3]. The loss of the sense of one’s identity during a psychedelic journey can induce fear or bliss, or even alternate between one and the other; it really depends on how one responds to this (intense) subjective effect.

As already stated, ‘set and setting’ influence negative reactions to psychedelics. ‘Set’ refers to individual factors, such as personality and mood (although knowledge of who exactly is vulnerable to bad trips remains unclear), whereas ‘setting’ refers to the social, cultural, and physical environment in which the psychedelic is taken. The type of substance and dosage can be relevant factors too. For instance, studies have associated bad trips with high doses [4]. Indeed, participants in the 2021 research described how most bad trips resulted from taking very high doses. 

Typically, participants’ trips started out well, then something ‘challenging’ was experienced, leaving the user distressed, “struggling for a solution to what was perceived as the problem.” Some tried to remind themselves they had taken a drug, whereas others sought help from trusted friends. The challenging experience gradually subsided, either because of the strategies used or because of the effects gradually wearing off. 

Now let’s turn to the design of the 2021 study on how users make sense of their bad trips.

Qualitative Interviews, Narrative Theory, and ‘Bad Trips’

The researchers carried out qualitative interviews with 50 Norwegian men and women (42 and 8, respectively). Most participants were in their late twenties or early thirties and lived in the greater Oslo area. The majority had used psychedelics between 10 and 50 times, with substances including LSD, psilocybin , 2C-B, DMT, or ayahuasca. 

The researchers recruited most participants through a closed Facebook group based on psychedelic use (made up of approximately 7,000 members). In-person interviews lasted 2-3 hours, with the researchers using open questions, enabling participants to provide detail-rich stories about the inspiration, intentions, and social and cultural contexts of their psychedelic use. Bad trips were then explored in detail. The authors concluded:

“Bad trip narratives may be a potent coping mechanism for users of psychedelics in non-controlled environments, enabling them to make sense of frightening experiences and integrate these into their life stories. Such narrative sense-making, or narrative work, facilitates the continued use of psychedelics, even after unpleasant experiences with the drugs.”

In terms of study limitations, the authors stress that the self-recruitment aspect may have impacted the results. They write: 

“For instance, it is likely that these participants are particularly interested in psychedelics and probably more motivated for using than other recreational users are. They may also have been influenced by the pro-psychedelic ideologies present in this online forum.”

Another interesting consideration is, as the authors say, “Results might have also been different if the sample was younger and their experiences happened under less controlled circumstances.”

The researchers used narrative theory to analyze the interviews they carried out, which is the study of how stories help people make sense of the world, others, and themselves. Storytelling allows us to choose what experiences we deem most relevant, fill in information gaps, bond with others, construct our personal identity, and achieve a sense of agency and coherence in our lives. As psychologist Dan P. McAdams states in the Handbook of Identity Theory and Research (2011), “Adults in modern societies construct integrative narratives to explain how they came to be, where their lives are going, and how they hope to fit in the world that awaits them” (pp. 99-100).

Bad trips will typically contain dramatic or even traumatic experiences that require both explanation and processing. Sometimes, narratively, this can be achieved by turning them into a humorous story, but often the decision is to imbue these experiences with a sense of meaning and purpose. This is consistent with the view that narratives and storytelling are crucial in recovering from trauma ( Crossley, 2000 ; Kaminer, 2006 ; Tuval-Mashiach et al., 2004 ) [5, 6, 7]. Retelling or reconstructing a traumatic incident is common in therapeutic trauma interventions.

The researchers thus use narrative theory to explain how bad trip stories are narrative work used by psychedelic users to help them process, come to terms with, and positively transform challenging experiences. However, individuals may also create helpful narratives through integration circles , which center on sharing experiences and receiving feedback in a non-judgmental space, which is common in psychedelic communities and retreats.

Turning Bad Trips Into Valuable Experiences

Almost all participants had disturbing psychedelic experiences. However, reflecting on them, they felt they were meaningful experiences, providing them with deep insights. For instance, one participant, Hannah, said: 

“The bad trips are what gives you the most insights. It’s this [bad] trip that shows you some sides of yourself that you perhaps have tried to diminish, that probably are the most important ones to understand. [These are insights] about who you really are, who you have been, what you’ve done, right. You have to see your flaws to be able to work through stuff.”

Hannah felt her bad trip allowed her to work through ego defenses and access repressed material, similar to what may be uncovered in psychodynamic therapy . Sometimes, unpleasant and frightening experiences were seen as necessary; Christina, for example, commented that you should not expect euphoric, blissful experiences from ayahuasca but ones involving self-development and hard work. 

Others feel gratitude following their bad trips. Helen, for instance, had a distressing trip on LSD in which she struggled to do ordinary activities like eating and urinating, and was convinced she had choked herself to death. However, she said:

“In the following three weeks, I woke up each morning so happy just to be alive. I felt that I had been given a gift, that I was allowed to live, that I can take trips in nature, that I have so many good people around me. I just felt so extremely lucky. I don’t think that I would experience this feeling if it weren’t for the extreme distress that I experienced.”

In addition, many participants valued their bad trips “sometimes because the bad trips had enabled them to face and resolve deep-rooted emotional barriers, interpersonal relationships or taught them to control their life.” Even participants who had extremely adverse reactions – what they referred to as psychotic episodes – felt gratitude for them.

Bad trip stories often followed the narrative structure of classical literature of many genres, folktales, and everyday storytelling in which the protagonist travels somewhere, has some experiences (sometimes challenging ones), and then returns with new insights (transforming difficulties into positive outcomes). By imbuing frightening psychedelic trips with a purpose, users can give these experiences new and positive meaning, as well as integrate them into larger life stories (i.e. the kind of direction their life is taking), thereby making them feel coherent.

Bad trip stories also gave psychedelic users an opportunity to explore “ambiguous life histories and relationships, as well as raise and discuss existential and moral questions.” The authors add that narratives surrounding bad trips can lead to flexible meaning-making, which breaks free from rigid and narrow views of personal identity. 

The authors note that narrative work following challenging experiences “may be particularly important for recreational users outside of safe and controlled therapeutic settings.” This is because, they state, “It is likely that in controlled and clinical contexts – with pre-screening of participants, professional “trip sitters” (e.g. nurses, psychologists), and follow-ups after participation – bad trips may be more benign.”

This doesn’t mean that narrative work should not also be valued in a therapeutic context. After all, this work may likewise offer benefits to those who have distressing experiences in controlled, supervised settings (when apparently everything – set and setting, and dosage – is ‘done right’). 

Previous research ( Griffiths et al., 2016 ) has found that high doses of psilocybin (average 4 grams) resulting in bad trips were, nonetheless, valued by users. 34% of those surveyed said their bad trip was among the top five most personally meaningful experiences of their life and 31% said it was among the top five most spiritually significant. 76% said the difficult trip resulted in an improved sense of personal well-being or life satisfaction. Interestingly, the degree of distress was positively associated with beneficial outcomes, so more difficult experiences were seen as more meaningful (although longer bad trips were linked to less beneficial outcomes) [8]. 

This study, like the 2021 one we’ve looked at, was similarly prone to bias because it relied on recruiting participants from psychedelic-focused online forums, which includes people who are more likely to have a favorable view of psychedelics. Nevertheless, the findings from the 2021 research indicate some of the ways people both cope with bad trips and how they turn them into valuable and meaningful experiences.

Follow your Curiosity

• Gashi, L., Sandberg, S., & Pedersen, W. (2021). Making “bad trips” good: How users of psychedelics narratively transform challenging trips into valuable experiences. International Journal of Drug Policy , 87, Article: 102997.
• Barrett, F. S., Bradstreet, M. P., Leoutsakos, J. S., Johnson, M. W., & Griffiths, R. R. (2016). The Challenging Experience Questionnaire: Characterization of challenging experiences with psilocybin mushrooms. Journal of Psychopharmacology , 30(12), 1279-1295.
• Kałużna, A., Schlosser, M., Craste, E. G., Stroud, J., & Cooke, J. (2002). Being no one, being One: The role of ego-dissolution and connectedness in the therapeutic effects of psychedelic experience. Journal of Psychedelic Studies , 6(2), 111-136.
• Bienemann, B., Ruschel, N. S., Campos, M. L., Negreiros, M. A., & Mograbi, D. C. (2020). Self-reported negative outcomes of psilocybin users: A quantitative textual analysis. PLoS One , 15(2), Article: e0229067.
• Crossley, M. L. (2000). Narrative Psychology, Trauma and the Study of Self/Identity. Theory & Psychology , 10(4), 527-546.
• Kaminer, D. (2006). Healing Processes in Trauma Narratives: A Review. South African Journal of Psychology , 36(3), 481-499.
• Tuval-Mashiach, R., Freedman, S., Bargai, N., Boker, R., Hadar, H., & Shalev, A. Y. (2004). Coping with trauma: narrative and cognitive perspectives. Psychiatry , 67(3), 280-293.
• Carbonaro, T. M., Bradstreet, M. P., Barrett, F. S., MacLean, K. A., Jesse, R., Johnson, M. W., & Griffiths, R. R. (2016). Survey study of challenging experiences after ingesting psilocybin mushrooms: Acute and enduring positive and negative consequences. Journal of Psychopharmacology , 30(12), 1268-1278.

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Bad Trip Reviews

Bad Trip is a farcical romp, but it is a stupidly funny romp that will catch you off guard more often than not.

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10 Tips to Help You Safely Navigate a Bad Trip

• Nicholas Levich

Welcome to our comprehensive guide on how to navigate a “bad” psychedelic experience. Given the intensity of these experiences, it’s nearly impossible to discuss psychedelics without someone bringing up the notoriously feared “bad trip.” 

This term “bad trip” refers to a challenging or difficult experience while being under the influence of a hallucinatory substance such as psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, ayahuasca, or even cannabis.

Don’t get us wrong, difficult experiences induced by psychedelic substances are just as important as ecstatic, awe-inspiring ones, and we’ve written a past article on the importance of bad trips . 

In fact, part of the deep, soulful medicine which resides in these mystical compounds lies in their ability to invoke intense, overwhelming, or shadowed emotions and thoughts. It’s how you handle the adversity that makes the difference.   

“When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.” — Franklin D. Roosevelt

But while it is important to understand the value of having a difficult trip, there are steps to be taken to ensure you have the capacity to handle, process, and alchemize the potential struggles, confusion, or hardships that may arise.

Key Takeaways

• Proper preparation, including understanding the substance, dosage, mental readiness, and creating a suitable environment significantly reduces the likelihood of a bad trip.
• Utilize strategies like controlled breathing, changing stimuli (audio, visual cues), or altering the environment to help manage and potentially alleviate the intensity of a difficult experience.
• Never self-medicate or mix substances during a psychedelic experience, and always prioritize safety by engaging with a knowledgeable trip sitter or guide as needed.
• Psychedelic Passage: Your Psychedelic Concierge — The easy, legal way to find trustworthy psilocybin guides, facilitators and psychedelic-assisted therapy near you in the United States.

Download Our Free Psilocybin Sourcing Guide

For harm-reduction purposes, we provide links to online psilocybin vendors, local stores, delivery services, and spore vendors for growing your own medicine at home.

Challenging Psychedelic Experiences Result in Growth

While we generally try to avoid these experiences altogether, the simple fact remains that bad trips are an inextricable part of the psychedelic experience . 

We maintain the belief that bad trips, though difficult to endure, are actually the most crucial part of the psychedelic experience as they result in some of the most impactful mental, physical, and spiritual growth we all desire.

Although these experiences are part of the psychedelic journey, there are steps you can take to make a challenging psychedelic experience easier to endure.

In fact, by implementing the 10 tools we’ll discuss below, you can significantly lower your chances of experiencing a bad trip, and arm yourself with the tools to cope with one should it occur.

Whether you’re currently experiencing a bad trip, trying to help a friend through one, or want to reduce the likelihood of having one in the future, these 10 tips will help you safely navigate a challenging psychedelic experience.

10 Ways to Navigate a Bad Trip

1. prepare in advance.

The best way to prevent or mitigate a bad trip is to have the proper preparation. 

In fact, we’ve written entire articles that specifically address how to prepare for an intentional psychedelic experience . This step is the most important and happens to be one of the main reasons our clients work with us. 

This includes learning about the specific substance , choosing the correct dosage , preparing mentally and physically, as well as preparing your environment for the trip itself. 

Writing down your intentions before your trip can help anchor your thoughts. Proper rest, hydration, and good nutrition prior to the trip will also help your endurance. 

Pre-made food, snacks, and readily available water can help nourish yourself during a bad trip. Setting up a comfortable area with little to no external interruption may also create an inviting and safe environment for your experience. 

There is no substitute for adequate preparation. Click the link to speak with a psychedelic trip sitters about the psychedelic preparation process.

2. Do Not Judge Yourself

We understand that even the most prepared person can have a bad trip and the importance of not judging or speaking negatively to yourself for having one. Be gentle on yourself. 

These negative thoughts can spiral out of control, making your experience that much more stressful.

One tactic that we’ve found useful is to write (in advance) a letter to yourself highlighting the things you love most about yourself and the lessons you hope to learn from your psychedelic experience and read it during your bad trip. 

When writing intentions, it may also be helpful to write grounding and anchoring messages to yourself for times when you feel you are spiraling or afraid. These messages may center ideas of safety, capability, and loving positivity.

Bad trips do not mean you are a bad person or stupid. You have to remember that you have the strength and resolve to survive the experience.

3. Remember It Is Temporary & That You Are Safe 

Similarly, bad trips can feel like they will last forever or make you feel like you are permanently damaged. Remember that many people encounter bad trips, and all of them are temporary. 

This means that the negative or uncomfortable sensations you are feeling will pass with time. Sometimes just the mere reminder that your experience is temporary gives you the endurance to safely get through your discomfort. 

Repeating the mantras “This too shall pass” or “This is temporary” can also help remind and calm you.

4. Take Care of Your Needs

In the height of the excitement, we sometimes forget that our consciousness lives within a human shell, which has needs that must be fulfilled to survive. 

You may be experiencing symptoms or discomfort, thinking it’s a bad trip, when in actuality, your body is signaling something as simple as eating, drinking water, using the bathroom, or that you are too hot or cold. 

Start by taking care of those basic physical needs , then move up to exploring your psychological needs, and ultimately your self-actualizing needs . 

Addressing some, or all of these needs will likely help you work through your bad trip and gain significant insight from it.

5. Breathwork

Breathing techniques have been scientifically proven to lower anxiety, depression, and stress. 

One 2013 study by Azadeh Nemati found that “only 33% of the participants of the experimental group experienced high test anxiety, while this percentage was nearly twice in the control group (66.7%)” for those assessed on their levels of pre-testing related anxiety. 

This means that prior to testing, self-reported anxiety was cut nearly in half in participants who did breathwork ahead of testing time . 

If you are feeling overwhelmed, start by taking deep breaths in through your nose, hold the air deep in your stomach for a couple of seconds, exhaling fully and deeply, and repeating. 

Do this for at least a minute, and repeat whenever you are feeling negative symptoms arise. You may also try alternate nostril breathing, which has been shown to lower stress and anxiety, improve cardiovascular function, and lower your heart rate (Cronkleton, 2022 ).

6. Change Audio and Visual Cues

Music and visual stimulation can help stabilize your mind during a bad trip. Giving your mind something to do often helps it from wandering uncontrollably, and we’ve put together a list of some great psychedelic trip music . 

Put on some of your favorite songs (playlists are recommended so you aren’t constantly required to make choices), or a funny or visually appealing movie or show to temporarily give your mind something to focus on. 

Choose something you’ve already seen before as the familiarity can help ground you. If it is too difficult to look at a screen, options like a book of art or poetry are good alternatives.

7. Change Your Environment

Sometimes navigating a bad trip can be as simple as changing the environment. As mentioned earlier, creating an intentional, comfortable, and safe space for your experience is important . 

Pay attention to things like tidiness, lighting, comfort, and room temperature. 

If you are still feeling claustrophobic or stuffy, explore a different room or walk throughout your house. It’s also important to minimize safety hazards in the space. 

Step outside to your backyard or another private area to get some fresh air, but avoid being out in public as you are less in control of your environment. Nature is often a refreshing venue to re-ground and re-establish a sense of inner peace.

Sometimes your body needs to be in motion and changing your environment can give you a great excuse to move around. Even adjusting your posture or hand placement can make a huge difference in these altered states.

8. Surrender to the Experience

Often a very interesting phenomenon happens during a psychedelic experience where the more you try to control it, the more intense and uncontrollable the experience becomes . 

The previous tips are all about mitigating and preventing a bad trip, but if you’ve tried all of the above and are safe, yet feel like the bad trip is still ongoing, the best thing to do is to lean into the experience and surrender to it. 

Surrendering does not mean giving up or harming yourself. In spiritual terms, surrendering means setting aside your own will and trusting your thoughts, ideas, and actions to the will of a higher power, whether it be god, ancestors, or the psychedelics themselves. 

Surrendering to the experience is saying, “I know I am safe; I know this is temporary; I surrender myself to the experience and wherever it takes me, knowing I will come out the other end just fine.”

9. Do Not Self Medicate

No matter how negative the experience can get, never mix drugs or drink alcohol while taking a psychedelic . There can be extremely negative consequences and harmful effects on your body. 

Even prescribed antidepressants and benzodiazepines, like Xanax, can have an adverse effect while under the influence of psychedelics.

However, non-medicated supplements, such as lavender, valerian root, b-complex vitamins, and vitamin c have anecdotally been stated to reduce anxiety during a bad trip. 

If you are predisposed to specific mental conditions, please seek a medical professional before doing psychedelics.

10. Connect With Someone

You may think that your best friend or partner is the ideal person for sitting for you because they know you intimately, but there are some definitive downsides to this route which are worth noting . 

Your friend or family member—while likely caring and supportive—may not have the proper experience, emotional capacity, or skills to help you navigate the experience in an unbiased way, especially in the event that you begin having a bad trip.

Not everyone may know how to de-escalate or respond in a crisis, and there is also the issue of lack of neutrality which can impact the content and quality of your trip. 

Trip sitting is best done by an experienced facilitator who knows that you are undergoing a psychedelic event, is familiar with that particular substance, and is trained in trip sitting and harm reduction techniques. 

Just Had a Bad Trip and Not Sure What to do Next?

The most important thing to do is to acknowledge both yourself and the sanctity of the powerful experience you just had.  

Historically , bad trips are sacred events in indigenous cultures who work with psychedelics ceremonially. Integration is a key part of this, through incorporating the lessons and wisdom into daily life and larger community.

Psychedelic integration refers to making sense of the psychedelic experience so that the lessons learned can be incorporated into a new way of being. 

In other words, unpacking the often bewildering psychedelic experience so that the insights and realizations can be implemented in your everyday life.

Psychedelics have the potential to change your life, but they aren’t inherently life-changing. Making lasting change takes work on your part, and integration is that work. 

Fortunately, you don’t have to do the work alone. Active support from a qualified psychedelic facilitator or guide is the best way to integrate these experiences into everyday life.

In fact, these mind-blowing experiences can make us feel like we are going crazy if we don’t have anyone around to help us process and unpack them. 

If you are looking for unbiased support and accountability throughout your entire psychedelic experience (before, during, and after), we suggest you book a consultation to talk to a facilitator today for the best quality support.

You can also check out our podcast episodes on mitigating the changes of a bad trip, part 1 and part 2 , to dive deeper into this topic and conversation. 

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James and Jennifer Crumbley, a school shooter's parents, are sentenced to 10-15 years

Quinn Klinefelter

(From left) James Crumbley, his attorney Mariell Lehman, Jennifer Crumbley and her attorney Shannon Smith sit in court in Pontiac, Mich., for Tuesday's sentencing on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the deaths of four Oxford High School students who were shot and killed by the Crumbleys' son. Bill Pugliano/Getty Images hide caption

(From left) James Crumbley, his attorney Mariell Lehman, Jennifer Crumbley and her attorney Shannon Smith sit in court in Pontiac, Mich., for Tuesday's sentencing on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the deaths of four Oxford High School students who were shot and killed by the Crumbleys' son.

James and Jennifer Crumbley, whose son murdered four classmates and shot seven other people at Oxford High School in 2021, were each sentenced Tuesday in a Pontiac, Mich. courtroom to between 10 and 15 years in prison.

Both Crumbleys were found guilty in separate trials on four counts of involuntary manslaughter. Each of those charges carried a maximum penalty of 15 years, and the sentences are to be served concurrently.

In court, the Crumbleys looked visibly shaken, breathing heavily as they read from prepared statements prior to learning their fate.

James Crumbley spoke directly to the parents of the students his son had murdered. Several family members attended the sentencing.

"I am sorry for your loss as a result of what my son did," he said. "I cannot express how much I wish that I had known what was going on with him or what was going to happen. Because I absolutely would have done a lot of things differently."

James Crumbley, father of school shooter, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter

In her statement, Jennifer Crumbley said she, her husband and her son, Ethan, were an average family.

"We weren't perfect but we loved our son and each other tremendously," Crumbley said. "This could be any parent up here in my shoes. Ethan could be your child, could be your grandchild, your niece, your nephew, your brother, your sister. Your child could make the fatal decision not just with a gun but a knife, a vehicle, intentionally or unintentionally."

The teenagers who lost their lives during the shooting rampage were Justin Shilling and Madisyn Baldwin, both 17, Tate Myre, 16, and 14-year-old Hana St. Juliana. Six other students and a teacher were injured.

When it was time for their families to speak, several members described how the murders still haunted them.

Nicole Beausoleil, whose daughter Madisyn Baldwin was shot at point blank range, told the Crumbleys buying their son a gun when he was already spiraling into despair made them just as responsible as the shooter.

"Not only did your son kill my daughter but you both did as well. The words 'involuntary' should not be a part of your offense. Everything you did that day, months prior and days after were voluntary acts (helping) your son to commit a murder. Not just one, but multiple," Beausoleil said.

A rare prosecution

The Crumbleys are believed to be the first parents of a mass school shooter to have been charged and convicted of such crimes. Many legal experts say it could set a precedent for charging parents with serious crimes because of actions taken by their child.

Their son, Ethan Crumbley, pleaded guilty to murder and previously was sentenced to life without parole for the school shooting he carried out when he was 15.

Prosecutors never claimed the parents knew about their son's plans to go on a killing spree at Michigan's Oxford High School. However, they argued the Crumbleys ignored signs their son was seriously troubled and bought him a powerful Sig Sauer 9mm handgun as an early Christmas present.

They never told counselors about the gun they gifted their child when they were called to a meeting at the school the day of the shooting, not even when they were shown drawings the teen made. The images featured a pistol resembling the Sig Sauer alongside a figure with bullet wounds and phrases like "blood everywhere" and "help me, the thoughts won't stop."

Jennifer Crumbley convicted of involuntary manslaughter over son's school shooting

Instead, the Crumbleys left their son at school and returned to work. A few hours later, Ethan emerged from a school bathroom with the gun and began firing his first of 32 shots.

Prosecutors told the jury if the Crumbleys had taken a "tragically few steps," four Oxford students would likely still be alive.

They showed evidence that the murder weapon was never properly secured away from their troubled son.

In court, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald used the murder weapon to demonstrate how to use a cable lock to keep the gun from being fired.

The process took about 10 seconds.

A 'chilling' lack of remorse

The prosecution had asked for the Crumbleys to serve 10 to 15 years in prison, citing what they called a "chilling lack of remorse" on the part of both parents after the shooting.

Prosecutors noted that Jennifer Crumbley testified during her trial that "I've asked myself if I would've done anything differently. And I wouldn't have."

And they pointed to repeated profanity-laced threats James Crumbley made against Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald on jailhouse phone calls he knew were being recorded, as well as in an electronic message.

'Mistakes any parent could make'

James Crumbley's attorney countered that his client had not physically threatened the prosecutor, he merely "vented" his anger over what he saw as an unjust incarceration.

The Crumbleys said they, too, were victims of their son, who they claimed had "manipulated" them into the purchase of a gun they had no idea he would use to kill.

They argued they made "mistakes any parent could make," given the information they had.

Defense attorneys for the couple noted an Oxford High counselor determined Ethan could remain in school the day of the shooting because he did not seem to pose a danger to himself or anyone else.

The couple maintained they thought their son was a normal teenager simply depressed over the loss of his grandmother, a pet dog and a friend who had moved away.

In a pre-sentencing interview with state officials, Jennifer Crumbley said that with the benefit of hindsight, "There are so many things I would change if I could go back in time."

Defense claims extra prison time unnecessary

The Crumbleys had asked to be sentenced to time served.

Defense attorneys argued the parents had already spent more than two and a half years in prison locked in a cell for 23 hours a day, and that further prison time was not necessary because the Crumbleys were not a threat to the public.

Defense attorney Shannon Smith also said more time would not deter others from committing a similar offense because "there is no person who would want the events of Nov. 30, 2021, to repeat themselves."

Smith added that, far from being the uncaring, remorseless mother prosecutors had portrayed to the public and the media, Jennifer Crumbley was focused on her son and distraught over the devastation her son caused.

In a sentencing memo, Jennifer Crumbley's parents and others pleaded with the court for leniency. A young woman, who said she was 18 when she became Crumbley's cellmate for a year and a half, also wrote to the judge.

She said Crumbley had greeted her with a basket of snacks and served as a mother figure to her.

The woman also wrote that inmates screamed threats at Crumbley, who tearfully told them she was sorry and "wished she could change everything her son had done."

Though Judge Cheryl Matthews sentenced the Crumbleys to the stiffest penalty possible, she said that the sentences were not designed to send a message to other parents or prosecutors that they should hold families responsible for children's crimes.

"These convictions are not about poor parenting. These convictions confirm repeated acts, or lack of acts, that could have halted an oncoming runaway train. About repeatedly ignoring things that would make a reasonable person feel the hair on the back of their neck stand up," Matthews said.

Moments after they were sentenced, the Crumbleys began filling out paperwork in the courtroom for an appeal.

Their son, Ethan, who pleaded guilty in October 2022 to murder and terrorism charges, is also likely to appeal his sentence of life without the possibility of parole.

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